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PvP Blog

Written by: Spirals | Date: 2012-12-28 07:16:35 | Related to: D3CL General

Diablo III PvP Update

We've been working really hard on the features, content, and systems for PvP in Diablo III and I wanted to take some time to provide an update on where we're at. Of course, our goal has been to release our Team Deathmatch mode as soon as possible, but we don't want to put anything out there before it's ready. Right now, Team Deathmatch isn't where we want it to be, and I want to provide some insight into where we are at in the development process.

The State of PvP

Our original intent with PvP for Diablo III was to provide more formal support for the dueling community that existed in Diablo II. We wanted to give players some kind of structure that would not only make it easier for you to duel with one another, but also allow you to have duels that were team-based. This is how our Team Deathmatch mode emerged, and it's been instrumental in making a lot of improvements to Diablo III. But in continuing to develop this mode, playtest it, and put it in front of other developers within the company, we've found that it falls short of our expectations for a high-quality Blizzard experience. Putting people into an arena and letting them hurl fireballs and swing crazy-ass swords at one another always has an element of fun to it. I imagine it's no surprise to anyone reading this blog that people like battling each other in video games, so if you had the chance to play Team Deathmatch at one of the BlizzCons where we featured it you might not understand why we'd say that we don’t feel the current mode is good enough.

Well, Here's Why...

“...we don't believe Deathmatch is the experience we feel it needs to be in order to ship, so we will be shelving it for now and exploring other options...” For us it comes to a few issues, one of which is depth. Simply fighting each other with no other objectives or choices to make gets old relatively quickly. We've brought a lot of people in to try out Team Deathmatch and, while some found it entertaining, most of our testers didn't feel like it was something they'd want to do beyond a few hours. Without more varied objectives, or very lucrative rewards, few saw our current iteration as something they'd want spend a lot of time in. Another is class balance. Like Diablo II, Diablo III was designed to be a PvE-first kind of game, where we never compromised on player abilities in the name of future PvP balance. We want to be able to carry over as many of the crazy runes, items, and skills as possible, with their crazy effects, and alter them as little as possible. In a casual PvP mode, something equivalent to a WoW Battleground, this would be fine, but Team Deathmatch felt very hardcore, and it put a laser focus on class balance in a way that we didn’t think would be good for the game as a whole. Certainly, we've gotten a lot of benefits from the development of Team Deathmatch, especially in the areas of controls and combat model tuning, but at this point we don't believe it's the experience we feel it needs to be in order to ship, so we will be shelving it for now and exploring other options.

What's Next

“You’ve been asking us for dueling for a while, so we're going to add it to the game soon” So, our core problem is that our Team Deathmatch mode doesn't feel like a great addition to Diablo III. It's not up to the quality that Blizzard gamers expect or that we feel you deserve, and it doesn't really fit with our goals for the rest of the game. The question now is what are we going to do about it? First and foremost, if our original goal was to support dueling, then we're not achieving that goal very well if we don’t actually give players a way to duel in-game. You’ve been asking us for dueling for a while, so we're going to add it to the game soon. Dueling is currently scheduled to release with patch 1.0.7, which is set to hit sometime after the new year. (We'll be providing details about that feature very soon, so stay tuned.) But as I mentioned before, we are going back to the drawing board on a new replacement for Team Deathmatch, something that feels more appropriate for Diablo III. And as we stated previously, regardless of when we release it, it'll be a free addition to the game. Team Deathmatch provided us with the foundation that we needed and served us well. Hell, it may even still be added in some form in the future. For now, though, we're going to first be looking at new modes that play up to the strengths of the character classes, focus on objectives beyond just defeating other players, and possibly even integrate PvE elements and rewards.

Keepin' It Real

We wanted to be upfront and honest with the community about where this particular project is at. It's certainly not ideal, and I know some of you got to play Team Deathmatch at BlizzCon and are probably thinking, "It seemed good enough! Just give us that." I also know how I feel whenever a game or game feature I'm looking forward to is delayed, but, as with all things Blizzard, we want to be sure that the features we add to Diablo III are actually worth it and will make the game better. While we don't have further information to share right now about our plans for additional PvP modes, we look forward to posting more about dueling in the next few days.

source: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6816948/Diablo_III_PvP_Update_-27_12_2012

- PvP mode will be available in patch 1.0.7
- only 1v1 mode will be available


hessu 2012-12-28 08:28
atleast we are about to get duels soon, and well.. in d2 that was enough  ;D
Mr.Mag 2012-12-28 11:51
only 1v1 mode but better this than nothing
hessu 2012-12-28 12:07
mm yea true, didnt notice that first, in case it's wow-like challenging
Nemra 2012-12-28 22:23
I hope for the sake of this community that if we begin crafting rules for custom pvp, then one of them will be that characters must be level 60 with no Paragon level.

For simple reasons..
- anything above level 60 does not help in any way in wearing better armour
- anything above level 60 does not help in any way in providing more skill customisation
- anything above level 60 wastes people's time to irrational proportions
- concluding from this, this will allow people have more than one character to pvp with as it is easy to level 1-60.
Mr.Mag 2012-12-28 22:31
interesting idea but i think it'll be hard to convince anyone to this. paragon levels are not bad at all, of course, they require a lot of time to reach max lvl which can be spent on pvp, not exping
Nemra 2012-12-28 22:42
Any rational human being who reaches paragon level 100 on more than one character is either loaded with cash to pay someone $1500+ to do 60-160 or should seek medical help.

Of course paragon levels do add some value, but personally I think having one character with paragon level 100 for MF'ing is sufficient enough - doing PvP with "just" 60 is just a solution that doesn't require spending ENORMOUS amounts of time doing pointless grinding and allows people to enjoy what they should, which is PvP.

I intend on PvP'ing with more than one character, but there is no way in this world that I will level them all up to plvl100 (life is too beautiful  ;) ).
Mr.Mag 2012-12-28 23:21
i understand, personally i have no time to lvl to 100 so your idea fits to me, but diablo is and was created for nolifes :D
Spirals 2012-12-30 04:03

Same as in diablo 2 really? There wasn't a rule your character had to be lvl 99 in order to compete? I'd say make lvl 60 the minimum lvl for now and let people free in their lvling choices. Having the possibilitie to invest time/money into your characters comes with a return: higher base amount of stats. This is even less when compared to d2 where you'd get more skillpoints aswell.

Also, going with your point implies setting limits on items - you can use the same reasoning; money to buy best items vs casual gamer..  let people decide for themselves

good to finally start talking about these subjects!!!! Shame we have to, but it's thrilling aswell  :D
jointit 2012-12-30 11:37
If the community decides to cap pvp here on lvl 60 + para 0 i will leave instantly. What a load of crap. You can hit para 100 in 2 weeks if you dedicate yourself.

The argument that paragon levels doesnt bring much is better used to disregard a potential capping of them in pvp.

Oh god, is this the bnet forums?
Mr.Mag 2012-12-30 12:05
I doubt that this rule will go. unbalanced items are much more problem. problably we'll start with no specific rules to figure out pvp
Hamer 2012-12-30 19:32
for sure we have to start without any limits whatsoever, so the league can attract players new to diablo pvping or that dont know anything about d2 pvp communities, then some limitations may be added
Ajantis 2012-12-31 01:00

Depends on the exent to which Blizz is going to balance the duels in 1.0.7. If they decide just to give us the DECLARE HOSTILITY button with no balance changes, not applying any limits will be pointless. The game will be unplayable.
Glasgow 2012-12-31 09:53
1. Where is no balance, there is a place we can act.
2. The whole process of setting ban list /skills(runes) or items/ should be made by an experienced players who spend tons of hours for practice, so they can decide what is OverPowered (u'r still able to counter) and what is Pure IMBAlanced (u cannot). I think D3CL could co-operate here with other fan sites (surveys etc).
3. After the ban list i ready, i can see a possibility of customization like no paragon lvls, but guys - this is almost the last step before Arenas and TDM will be implemented

Hamer 2012-12-31 19:24
Ajantis, thats obvious, but i hope we will host the first tournament within 1-2 weeks from start, and that period is too short to come up with some wise rules, but later we will do whatever is necessary
Ajantis 2012-12-31 19:42
We could do that. But I'm afraid it's going to be a true HACK AND SLASH ;)
AsaroV 2012-12-31 20:43

its already HACK  :-\
Spirals 2012-12-31 21:08
I think we cannot say anything about possible rules until we actually start playing it. We will see. First tournaments in postreality lasted very long. Some duels took up a whole night because the rules weren't defined right ^^.
Still, that's the charm of building up  8)

And jonte.. don't be an emo haha  ;D
saesa 2013-01-01 11:19
Even if d3 pvp becomes somewhat balanced/playable from Blizzard (through slight skills tweaking), don't forget that there will always be 2 camps of gamers. One camp of elitists who definitely will spend hours and hours of practising and eventually become really good - for which 100 paragon is just matter of few weeks and shouldn't be capped. And then more casual players - like 90% of all who take part in duelling, who are pretty solid with paragon lvl 40, 50 for example. So as time goes on, I'm still pretty certain this will need like 2 rulesets ("leagues").
One for more casual audience, which will be even more popular I suppose, and other one for diablo hardcore nolifers.

I mean even in d2 tvt you had no chance to win some veterans while you were just rookie...expecting in d3 even bigger gaps in difference (due to the crazy items etc.)
Glasgow 2013-01-02 09:59
IMO separating players isn't good idea. In Poland we have a sentence: If you fall, do it from a highest horse ;) There is nothing better when you challenge semi-pro players so u know how far is your progress. Besides Paragon LvL cap doesn't give you OP. Every lvl gains you +3 primary stat, +2 vit and +1 rest, so the difference is like a matter of gems in gear.
Nemra 2013-01-02 15:00

I'm with Saesa on this one. There is no point in going beyond level 60 in PvP but for those who wish to - go ahead. Truth is paragon levels are close to useless as they don't unlock any new items and skills, only Blizzard created an artificial way to kill people's time pointlessly.
Mr.Mag 2013-01-02 15:08
what people whant is more important than what is logical ;) possible loss of players due to limiting char lvl to 60 (no paragon lvls) is high I guess.
Ajantis 2013-01-02 16:47
Imho we shouldnt treat players according to their plv. There are people with 100lv that are not interested in pvp, while some folks are afking right now waiting for pvp because they dont feel like fsrming all day long.
But the idea of 2 rulesets is nice. Several years ago PCL introduced PCL Professional and PCL Amateur rules and the latter was pretty popular. The thing is that some good players will be more interesting in participating in Amateur leagues because of easy win.
Nemra 2013-01-02 18:11
I just don't see a problem organising tournaments / leagues for both sets of players (lvl 60 and lvl 60+).

Besides Ajantis, as you said in the case of PCL there were 2 leagues - I wasn't aware of that - what was the distinctive factor between the two?

I guess it wasn't levelling which in the case of D3 may very well be - so I don't think the argument of good players just participating in the "level 60" only league would hold true - people (no matter whether pro or casual) would take part in it for quality of life reasons.
Hamer 2013-01-02 18:18
the second league was added on later stage in PCL and AFAIK it was to attract guys who havent played in any duel league before, and wanted to start in pvp, they were taught the basics of pvp and what gear/skillset could be good for them; but later if any of them was skillful/interested in tournaments they evetually played in "normal" league

the level cap has quite low priority now, we can evetually add second type of tournaments for lvl 60 only, but thats something to think about when league will be up and running with huge players base

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